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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Watched a Video of a guy that hit a truck head on in a turn the other day and it was messy . 3 times he tried to avoid what i knew was going to happen as he struggles with the steering before the impact. In my mind i believe he had no concept of Countersteering and it cost him his life . This was a natural for me on my hayabusa in the day and now i use it every turn i make on the Valk. just wanted to throw this out there and perhaps save a life but will leave it to others to explain it or educate yourself by the Pro's on u-tube. Ride safe everyone and never over your head . Turns and intersections take so many of us out !

 

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I was quite surprised at the amount of riders who have no idea about counter steering and would in fact argue like no tomorrow that it did not work like that.


The way I taught my X was to push with the hand on the side you want to go. Standing there it was arm out, palm out and fingers pointing towards the sky and push. Seemed to work. Unfortunately ;)


Out of interest my father when he was young and in his first job was a courier on a side car. He could ride a bike but had never driven a side car. He put it through a window of a movie theater because he told me it just would not turn. Counter steering only works on 2 wheels, not 3. Short story was 50 years later I worked out why he crashed and 50 years later he found out what counter steering is.
 

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If you’re riding over parking lot speeds, you’re already countersteering.
Problem is that some don’t understand it, or know what they’re doing.
 

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If you’re riding over parking lot speeds, you’re already counter steering. Problem is that some don’t understand it, or know what they’re doing.
CS, it is as natural as walking or flying, you don't need to know how it works IF you just do it. Just as much as LOOK where you want to go is to PUSH in the direction like pointing where you want to go.
IF you know this is how the geometry works then you can Consciously put your/more effort into making it happen, otherwise unconsciously you just tend to move into the direction you are looking just like when you were a kid on bicycle. nobody had to tell you or teach you to counter steer , you just did it unconsciously.

Where individuals err is when they don't know, but Consciously try to steer not cs a two wheeled flyer and of course it will go the other direction from intended because of geometry.

what geometry, you might ask? some might.. it has to do with gyroscopic forces and the shape and profile of your tires. first gyroscopic forces want the wheels to rotate perpendicular to the planet center of gravity, aka straight up. when you turn the front wheel in either direction, gyroscopic force will push the entire bike in the opposite direction. that is what causes the start of the lean over.
then the round Profile of the tires and their contact patch to the pavement employ what is called Camber Thrust to carve an Arc in the direction you are going. The center of the tire has a larger circumference (length) than any of the tire side profile have diminishing circumferences. Such that when leaned over, with each wheel rotation the inside of the contact patch is carving a shorter distance than the outer/center of the tire and the affect is an Arc.

camber thrust, the wheel gyro affect pulling up, gravity pulling down, centripedal force pushing out , you are in a natural state of balance aka Flying so long as the road surface doesn't toss you a curve with bumps or animal road kill (skunks) or wet pavement = loss of traction.. all is good .. for a while.

when you center the front wheel , then gyro overcomes gravity and the bike stands up straight to the pavement. So, you see you didn't need to know all this geometry and physical forces for it to work for you. you just need to do it. not very elegant, but it gets the job done. poncho
 

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I would argue the gentleman who unfortunately lost his life probably was staring at the truck. A rider naturally countersteers, even if they don't know, and I cannot imagine he was riding if he didn't know how to turn. I agree - it is good to know how it works (your life hinges upon it), but I think more realistically he fixated on the truck and he went towards it. The best thing to do is train frequently to avoid staring at a dangerous object - of course, this is counterintuitive; thus, it needs to be practiced. Still happens sometimes. I have deer where I live, and there have been several occasions where they dart across the road. Pretty hard not to stare at the dumb creatures as time slows down.
 

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I would argue the gentleman who unfortunately lost his life probably was staring at the truck. A rider naturally countersteers, even if they don't know, and I cannot imagine he was riding if he didn't know how to turn. I agree - it is good to know how it works (your life hinges upon it), but I think more realistically he fixated on the truck and he went towards it. The best thing to do is train frequently to avoid staring at a dangerous object - of course, this is counterintuitive; thus, it needs to be practiced. Still happens sometimes. I have deer where I live, and there have been several occasions where they dart across the road. Pretty hard not to stare at the dumb creatures as time slows down.

I agree. It probably wasn't the inability to counter steer, it was probably fixation. It takes a lot of practice to look where you need to go rather than what you are about to hit. New riders have difficulty with this concept.
 

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Look where you want to go and you will Go where you are looking. is for all things in motion.
driving a vehicle on snow/ice and encountering a spin, look between the cars and you will instinctively steer toward the space between them. that is if you don't have your foot on the brake.. same goes for snow skiing, if you find yourself off the trail and in the trees. look between the trees and you will go there. look at a tree and you will hit it.
 

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Presence of mind, if in fact a head on collision is imminent, the bike does not matter and best course of action is to jump off and push away if possible.

These things happen so quickly that attempting to counter-steer may only put you in harms way at the last second.

Two wheeled machines never win in a scenario such as this.
 

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Presence of mind, if in fact a head on collision is imminent, the bike does not matter and best course of action is to jump off and push away if possible.These things happen so quickly that attempting to counter-steer may only put you in harms way at the last second. Two wheeled machines never win in a scenario such as this.
that is like attempting to bail out of an airplane without a parachute. you are still going to hit the ground and the airplane only now on the outside of it at a high rate of velocity.. it is always better to keep flying your plane IF you know how to fly your plane. you might get lucky and pull it out.
 

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you might get lucky and pull it out.
Luck is what we're talking about here and I for one never use the term. However, your solution and my solution is always a choice and I have no idea which one I would choose if facing a head on accident. I could jump out of harms way and get creamed by another vehicle. I could successfully maneuver my bike just to get nailed by a semi truck.

I remember seeing a video of a dude that slammed into the rear of a car just to end up on his feet on top of the car. KRAAAZYY!!! :laugh:
 

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if in fact a head on collision is imminent, attempting to counter-steer may only put you in harms way at the last second.
it seems these two statements are conflicting.. IF a collision is Imminent .. how could any attempt at to actually do something to avoid it put your in Harms way .? you already are in harms way.

reality is when the brown excrement hits the rotating occilator , your 5lbs of grey matter will be too overloaded to process any rational thoughts and execute some escape strategy. Only your heavily practiced memory muscles may kick in and perform exactly how you trained it many successive times and your rear facing dermus might live to see the light of another day. although it will probably be well stuffed with a goodly bite of seat foam.

so the idea is to ride/fly in such a manner as to never put yourself into a situation where you might actually have to execute evasive maneuvers.. but practice, practice, practice them anyway.
 

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so the idea is to ride/fly in such a manner as to never put yourself into a situation where you might actually have to execute evasive maneuvers..
LOL! Your comment/statement is about as useless as mine...

We all face situations daily because we are surrounded by idgits and they're hard to evade.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)

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numero uno .. he is riding too fkng fast (well above 50mph on what might be 35mph road) to be on public road. this is NOT a one way race track. at his speed he is requiring the whole road way to make his adjustments as the right lane alone is not wide enough. at speed there is not enough time to process all the things that might should-could do. you will only do what you Practice train yourself to do. Anytime you are faced with oncoming traffic in a corner like this you MUST by Practice force yourself to look BEHIND the oncoming vehicle as that is where you are wanting to go. The rest of what your body does to get you there is just a matter of well trained Muscle Memory. there is not anytime to be processing what to do and how to get it done.. success or failure, its all over with in millaseconds.


dos.. this is a narrow, unmarked, two way rural road. even at moderate speed that truck could easily have been running dead center leaving little to no room on the right. speed kills. well it is deceleration to 0 in 0 seconds actually does the job.
 

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The crash rider is clearly trying to catch his mate and riding beyond his ability. It's why I prefer to just agree on the meetup point/time and get there separately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Terrible crash.
Take the time to read after the crash. He lived. :)

Glad he did , the other video was a clean up job , Not even going to go into trail breaking ............
 

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He hit a dip in the road(@ 27 secs) causing him to bounce and prevented him from controlling the bike. Play it back over and over to see it. Had nothing to do with counter steering.

He was going way too fast.
 
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