Charlie Foxtrot - Honda Valkyrie F6C Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 05:40 AM Thread Starter
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Charlie Foxtrot

Another one down but not me this time, a good friend which is way worse to watch.

She is ok with some serious bruising. The Shoei save her head and she didn't even have a headache. Much better then the helmet she replace only months ago that cracked when it fell off her seat. The Shoei didn't even look that bad but she cut the chin strap off when she saw the video.

We have fixed her bike up and swapped out the rear shocks which were useless. We should have done that ages ago so her bike will be all good when she is. As a group we have to work on our riding because one is too many so two is right out there and something we need to address.


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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 08:37 AM
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As a group we have to work on our riding...
What's the plan?
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 09:54 AM
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motorcycle safety training. everybody who rides thinks they don't need this. Basic and Advanced courses. I have taken both and will attest that you will learn more in a few short hours what you are doing right and wrong than all years riding and the banter with the boys and girls at the pub or even here. Then go practice what you learn. the more you do right things right, muscle memory, the better your chances are of executing proper maneuvers and surviving all the bad things that happen on the road. Then take the Advance course. it has nothing to do with racing and how racers ride the edge of control/out of control.. Certified Motorcycle Safety Training, look for it in your area. its money in the bank.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 10:24 AM
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that is a problem when riding in groups. the front guy thinks he needs to go faster than is reasonable safe because after all he is in front and nobody wants to be called out for going too slow (like an old man)(unless of course you are an old man)(this is how to get to be an old man)... then the others following feel compelled to at least match the lead riders pace because after all he/she is doing it, so it must be safe?
what follows next is called the accordion or slinky effect. Those following experience this and is amplified more so at the rear. they tend to fall back a bit only to realize they are far back and need to accelerate (unsafely) just to close the distance between them and the leaders (who are riding too fast). So they go faster than they should and enter corners faster than they should and have their hands full. add in wet pavement. yikes!

it takes real discipline to NOT ride as fast as group when riding in a group. Just let the fast ones go on up ahead and catch up when they eventually slow down. often they will IF they realize they have lost the group and run away from them. sometimes its only a few moments before the slower ones catch up. So its up to the more Safety Concerned (mature) in the mix to be a DRAG on the racers among us to keep the whole thing from going belly up. what happens to one, happens to all. add in wet /damp pavement and you are playing Russian roulette.. this may be a foreign idea , but there is nothing wrong with going slower.


I have done many group rides while touring. Everybody rides at their own pace. those that have to ride fast, knock yourself out. those that prefer a more leisurely ride do so. everybody arrives at the same waypoints at not that great time difference. More often because its a group ride, the zipsplats will slow down when they realize the old guys will NOT speed up.
I have traveled with just one ride buddy, when he needed to get his speed on he would go for it. I would catch up when he had is fill and then we would ride together for a while until he had to get it out of his system again. it can work.. the key is to NOT let others push you into riding beyond your skill sets and what is prudent for the conditions .. wet roads. yikes!
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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I have done advanced rider courses. That is not the issue. The most important thing I learned from that is it is my fault. Neither is the guy in front being pushed an issue because it does not happen here. Maybe with other groups but not with mine. I started my group to find great mates and I have done so and there is no pressure there at all. Also I am pretty sure Kylie on her VT400 was in no way pressuring Rob on his Goldwing haha.

The problem from my perspective is not thinking about what is obvious. For example on my crash. I knew that tire was garbage to the point of swearing off them and yet I put it back on. I then didn't bother to account for it in any way. No brain activity there.

The crash in this video. We knew those shocks were garbage. For a long time and all we did was talk about it. I have seen that bugger lose control many times. I have even ridden that bike and was appalled at the fact that there was zero damping in it. But did nothing except laugh. Even moments before this crash we were talking about it and there was more than was shown in the video but point illustrated.

I have the best part of 100k kilometers of riding practice on this bike since Jan 2015. All weekends. No commute. Pure recreation. That riding consists of everything from highway droning to speed on dirt roads and lots of stuff in between that I might not write up here. There in no bragging. What I am saying is I know how to control the bike in all weather and road conditions within my limits. I do so regularly so I have a pretty good grasp on where my limits are and try not to skirt too close.

And yet I crashed hard on an easy corner in the wet with tires I knew where not great at being tires.

In this video we had another crash partly caused by something that was stupendously obvious.

2 crashes. 2 easy corners. Nothing out of the blue.

Whats is the plan?

More thought... too complacent.

You see the problem is not with the bikes, road conditions, skill levels etc etc. A known condition should not be a problem. So with that in mind it is obvious. The problem is above the shoulders.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 12:37 AM
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I did see her rear tire take a bad hop over a bump about a minute before the wreck so yeah I agree the suspension was garbage, you guys be careful I Luv your vids but seeing 2 like this in a month not so much... Plus you lost a GoldWing in the carnage
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 08:17 AM
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I have done advanced rider courses. That is not the issue. The most important thing I learned from that is it is my fault.

The problem from my perspective is not thinking about what is obvious. For example on my crash. I knew that tire was garbage to the point of swearing off them and yet I put it back on. I then didn't bother to account for it in any way. No brain activity there. And yet I crashed hard on an easy corner in the wet with tires I knew where not great at being tires.

Whats is the plan? More thought... too complacent. You see the problem is not with the bikes, road conditions, skill levels etc etc. A known condition should not be a problem. So with that in mind it is obvious. The problem is above the shoulders.
like landing a plane, if you can walk away from,, any lesson that is learned is worth the price, so much as that it was Learned. the problems we face is when we don't learn from lifes lessons and go on and make the same errors , repeatedly. some of us are just slow learners?

I didn't comment on your first crash. I am sure you can figure it out. you ride your 750lb cruiser through all kinds of scenarios, testing it and yourself, what it can and what it/you should not do. sometimes pushing it like it was a middle weight (it is not). So you like to carve the corners and know it requires "special tires" to get a grip when bent over, but you put on metzlers which are not special tires for grip but rather long distance tires for cruising and touring.. I know you wrote that they were the only thing available on short notice so you did it anyway knowing better..
but then you went and pressed them into service doing your standard carving and they let you down , on a damp/wet road. you pushed them where you know they don't do well. IF that road had not been damp/wet you may have gotten away with it and even if it did lose some traction, perhaps enough grip to recover. that would have been a wake up call. either get rid of the tire or slow down.. WET roads are just playing with a loaded gun. we get away with so much when riding in the dry and sometimes we manage to slip and slide in the wet and keep it up right. but the window of control is so so small, its just a matter of time before it will bite us in theass. been there done that. I learned my lesson long ago. I don't go there anymore. either I don't ride on wet or I ride so slow with my hazard lites on, I am more likely to get rear ended by vehicle not paying attention. every day has a new lesson. its like being back in grade school. poncho

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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True on the lessons learned but there is nothing to fear at all from wet roads if you ride wet roads whenever you can and are not stupid about it. Wet roads are not a loaded gun and more then dry roads are. Diesel, oil, radiator coolant, sticks, leaves etc etc can all make the day expectantly interesting and right about then it is probably good to have experience with a bike moving around.

You don't need "special" tires as such. I have gone to PR4's because of outstanding wet weather grip and at this point in time I need to boost my confidence and can't tolerate movement in the bike at this point. I will say without reservation that I do not think Metz 888's are a good idea on Valk's. They have plenty of grip in the dry but don't feel "right" and they are just crap in the wet.

It is interesting you bring up flying. I once was a pilot many years ago and like my riding I rode all weather conditions and probed the boundaries else how do you learn control? The reason behind that is if you don't you are unprepared and inexperienced when you get caught out and you are going to get caught out. I got a bunch of trophies to show how well that worked somewhere.

I treat riding the exact same way. My rides goes all weather conditions and I do mean all and I enjoy it. Same road, different ride. We also do dirt regularly as well and is something I am working up to doing again. Plenty of movement practice on a gravel road I can tell you.

My one and only problem was not thinking and it happens. I'm human as such we make mistakes. For my own personal reasons I will attempt to not make that mistake again and help my friends do the same.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 05:12 PM
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Glad she was able to walk away from that spill. No fun going down.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 09:54 PM
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You don't need "special" tires as such. I have gone to PR4's because of outstanding wet weather grip and at this point in time I need to boost my confidence and can't tolerate movement in the bike at this point. I will say without reservation that I do not think Metz 888's are a good idea on Valk's. They have plenty of grip in the dry but don't feel "right" and they are just crap in the wet. .
PR4's , I would classify as "special tires" designed specifically for cornering and wet grip. I would venture they are soft and grippy and wear fast. these are not your everyday cruiser/tour tires.
remember this a 750lb modified gold wing not a hybusa. if riding on wet pavement weren't as treacherous as you say, why would you need these "special" wear fast grippy tires? and its not really just about riding on wet pavement, its pushing the limits while on the slippery stuff..
Michelin Pilot Road 4 Motorcycle Tire Features:
Superior wet-weather performance
-Michelin Pilot Road 4 Tires stop shorter in the wet vs. the leading competitive sport touring tires and Michelin Pilot Road 3.
Longest tread life in its class
-Up to 20% longer tread life than Michelin Pilot Road 3 tires
Dependable grip even in challenging conditions
-2 Compound Technology with all new silica-charged rubber compounds for excellent grip from 23F to 113F
-New XST+ siping and enhanced tread patterns for optimum grip at all lean angles.


all I recommended is slowing down when it gets damp out, is not the time to push the envelope. I have had more than my fair share of tires slip and slide under me. if you think its tough controlling a loose rear end, wait till you have a front slide out from under you while bent over. good luck trying to not eat it.. much. poncho

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Last edited by Poncho; 09-30-2019 at 09:58 PM.
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